Posted by: duncanrust | February 1, 2007

Inner Children, Age Players, Paedophiles And Fakers

[Ok this is going to be a long entry, and as I write it, I don’t know if it will ever make my blog, or even if I will ever hit the save button. Not only will it be long in text, but also long as in preparation, and difficulty. After all, the subject is very controversial, and can sparkle bad triggers for everyone. I urge you, reader of this to either stop after this paragraph, or read the whole thing. Don’t judge without reading all of it.]

This entry is also in relation to the virtual world of Second Life. The part of Second Life I exist is only open for adults, in this case meaning people who are in real life over 18 years of age. There is also a part for younger people, a by Linden Labs closely guarded environment called the “teen grid” These two environments are not linked.. meaning teens cannot come into the adult part, and adults can neither sneak into the teen part.

However the ‘adult grid’ on Second life has many avatars that are made to be younger then 18 years old. These are adults who want to play younger humans. I have no figures, but I think that there are between 1000 and 3000 active accounts on the grid where the main avatar is a child or teen form. On the total number of accounts just over 3 million, with about 1 million active accounts (used less then 60 days ago) it is a small proportion of the population, but as for a group, it is quite a large group.

In the subculture of Second Life, the term ageplay has a slightly different meaning then elsewhere on the net. More specifically, in Second Life, the term “ageplay” in general is linked to ‘children’ and ‘teens’ who are or like to be sexual, where as elsewhere on the net, it can refer to both adults who are sexual or non sexual in their needs to be a ‘child’ online.

It is possible that a ‘child’ or ‘teen’ belongs to one or all 4 of the given groups, although most will only belong to 1 or 2 of these groups Also note that anytime I say ‘Child’ or ‘Teen’ I refer to it as in the context of a role play. For real children and teens, I will use the terms bio-child (biological children) and bio-teen (biological teens)

 

INNER CHILDREN
Now the reasons for being a teen, or a child on Second Life can be very diverse. There are people who have the emotional need to act out as a bio-child, or bio-teen. Some have been abused in different ways (sexual, physical or emotional) as a bio-child, while others might have other problems the deprived them from having a normal loving fun childhood (For people who had a lot of illnesses or a long sickbed in their youth).

Most of this people feel they have a Child inside them, a child that wants to come out , and play. I call this group people with (a) strong inner child(ren). Yes, one can have more inner children, depending on one’s needs. By the way, there are also people with a completely normal childhood, who feel this need… it happens, though they are a minority, sadly.

 

FAKERS
Then there is a group I call fakers. These are people who like to play a child or teen for profit. How? Well there are several methods. On of the most used scams is a ‘child’ finding parents, and try to get as much allowance and stuff from them as possible. Then one day.. leave to not return. An other method, is using a child avatar, often said to be abandoned by his or her parents, to beg to passing others for money or goods. They hope the image of a child will make you pity them, and give them what they want more easily.

If you see such a Fake child, think of this: The person behind that avatar it is rich enough to have access to a reasonably fast computer. If he/she wants, they can buy lindens with Paypal, or a credit card. Or even do one of Second Life’s many jobs. Though there are not too many fakers (I know only a few cases), the number of Fakers seem to increase lately.

AGE PLAYERS
Sadly, this term is often used in combination with paedophiles. Though the reason is obvious, both seam to deal with people under the age of 18 and sexuality. I think the big difference, is that for age players, it is only a role.. They knowledge the role they and/or their partner play is played by an adult, and would not have it any other way.

For some, sexual ageplay takes place between ‘children’ or ‘teens’ of roughly the same age, for others, this is extended to a sexual roleplay across generations (mom / son, daddy/daughter, Aunt/niece or whatever).

As for the ‘same age’-age play, I see most of them either act in semi innocent games like playing doctor as a child, or wanting to relive the first time sex as a teen. Also, I see many ‘children’ and ‘teens’ who engage in more specific sexual activities actually behaving like adults, in words and speech. And all but a very few will indeed think of each other as children at those moments, but as lovers, no age given.

Especially the second, cross generation roleplay often gets portrayed as being paedophilic. Though I can understand why people get that idea, it is not per definition right. For me, such a roleplay is more a roleplay in terms of BDSM, not much different from puppy play. In both cases, the type of role (submissive or dominant) is made naturally, the puppy (or any other pet is submissive to his master, and the ‘child’ being submissive to his/her ‘caregiver’ . Because of the easy integration of things like restraints, diapers (a big fetish of me), breastfeeding, spanking and such, I prefer cross generation ageplay as submissive. I even can admit I love being an the start, and being forced back into diapers. Still that is called ageplay, or infantilism, but it has hardly to do with real children, just with objects and activities related to them. This said, none of the moms I ever had in Second life ever have been engaged into sexual ageplay. I keep this more as a roleplay on either Instant messaging or Real life. I for one, think cross generation ageplay like this is completely harmless.

Those who know me, know I am a very big pro ageplay, as form of *roleplay* or BDSM setting.

PAEDOPHILES
A very difficult subject. More difficult as many people think it is at first glance. Of course for most people the first reaction is: Pedo’s? Kill them, castrate them. Out of their own desire to protect their young loved ones.

I for one, think being a paedophile is not a choice, but forced upon you by genes, up bring and environment. Killing someone for being a paedophile would, in my eyes be like killing someone for having brown eyes a white skin, being gay, having a sixth toe, or any possible gene defect.

I truly believe that someone doe not choose to be a paedophile, yet I do believe that someone can choose on how to act on it. For me that means, that a paedophile is able to choose to keep distance from bio children, choose not to act on his lust.. not to accept jobs involving children. Even though it might be a disgusting thought for some of you, the idea the people look pictures of bio children to get off (and I don’t mean sexual explicit ones but, say, pictures of children in swimsuits) does not really bother me. If they in that way can keep themselves from actual sexual activities with bio children, and keep bio children from being exploited, I think it is a workable solution. The same goes for roleplaying in second life. If by roleplaying with a ‘child’ or ‘teen’ they can satisfy themselves without the need of bio children or bio teens, again I find it a workable solution. However, I don’t think that a paedophile can never demand to be served by a roleplaying teen or child. It is always up to the child weather or not that request is honoured. And, as always, I think that trying to force or push after a no, is not done. Trying to go further after a clear no, for me is very short of actual rape. Consent is always needed.

My visions in short:
There are people in Second Life who want to play a child avatar just for the sake of reliving their childhood or teen years. Those people, by anyone’s standard in Second Life should have the right to do so, without being questioned, or judged.

There are also people who are Age Players who like to have erotic or sexual contents within their being a ‘child’ or ‘teen’ Some to relief first time experiences, others as a part of a complicated, but honest BDSM setting. Though I can understand this can puzzle others, I think it is a legitimate roleplay. I, myself belong to this group, and I will always advocate for this kind of play, especially since I have seen this kind of play helping to heal people, including myself.

Then There are fakers. People who are kids for financial gain. When I will ever find someone like that, I will blow the whistle. I have no acceptance for people being jerks.

Last there are true paedophiles, that like in any group, are part of the child and teen population too. I will never advocate pro paedophiles, yet, in a certain light, I think it is better t have them lurking on Second Life then in real life.

Studies to alternative ways for paedophiles to get their satisfaction are as of yet, still inconclusive. Some studies indicate that would really work, but a few also clearly contradict this statement. I for one believe these alternate ways work.

This piece was hard to write. It took me several days, as I wanted to be sure to get the idea across that I am liberal, without people getting the idea I am advocating for paedophiles. If someone still believes that, I have failed.


Responses

  1. Dunc,

    I really like your essay here. You bring up some very controversial points. Difficult points. Not everybody will agree with what you say, even within our own SL teen community – in fact, I know many who would not.

    Knowing you, being your brother and friend, has sensitized me to some of these very difficult issues, and people like you, people willing to take the time and effort are what it will take to change people’s perception. Its not an easy road; some would say even an impossible road, but continue on it. Never make the mistake of doing nothing, because you can only do little for a cause that you care about.

    I could go on for some time in response to this, but then I would be writing my own essay, which I may very well do in my own blog at some point. I’ll stop for now. Keeping this conversation alive, though, creating a dialogue is so very important, even when you must discourse with people with whom you disagree.

    Take care!

    Love,
    Shakes

  2. Thank you shakes

    Yes, when i started to writ this essay, I knew how controversial it would be. Even up to the idea that this enry alone might quite alter my frineds list as in making it shorter. Everyone who read this whole darn blog can do an eduacted guess on how that makes me feel, yet, I felt I had to write this.

    Yes, bro, I wanted to start a dialoge. Or rather: I wanted people start to think about it, on their own. I can agree to disagree on points. In fact if I would be yet an ohter spokesman who get a herd full of people agreeing with everything I say, I would have failed in my essay too.

    If you come ever arround to write it, I would love to read your essay too. Thaks for your kind words. They are much needed.

    Tace Care,
    Love,

    Duncan

  3. Hi Duncan,

    it’s very easy to say you put lots of time and thoughts into this. You adress very some very hot and controversial questions which in the end will determine the future of all of us kids avies. I wasn’t in sl yet at this time, but I heard from others about actual anti-kid-av-campaigns and even wars. No doubt, coming from those controversial questions and points of view.

    Have to admit that I asked myself the pedophile question myself, what impact that big playing ground sl has on the real life of people with such urges. As you I don’t believe there is a pure black or a pure white side. I truly believe that living out those urges in sl can keep pedophiles away from hurting real life kids – and I truly believe it can intensify those urges for others, pushing them into the real life.

    You know that I belong to the second group, those who want to relive their teen live with an added sexual component. Only with other teens, in my case only with ONE other teen from now on :-) We hurt nobody, and we don’t throw it into others faces. We respect everyone, especially the kid avies from your first group, who only want to be kids. The only thing we want in return is the same respect, or call it tolerance. I don’t see anything wrong with that.

    Take care my friend,
    love you,
    Danny

  4. Heya Daniel,

    Thanks for your input. I love to see reactions from everyone her, as long as they are in respect.

    Take care,
    Love
    Duncan

  5. Hi Duncan, I was really impressed with your blog/essay ect.. I myself am an ageplay in SL and am part of several of the groups you’ve described. No not the fakers. In SL I have a family complete with Mum, Dad, Anutie and I also do sexual ageplay. To me it’s purly roleplay, I dont want to take the things I get out of SL into the real world, to me it’s a fanatsy where I can be who I want to be with no repercussions. I find the family dynamic as you say healing and the other stuff is a ‘kink’ and very strongly linked with BDSM, my sexual side is not part of the family it is seperate. I’ve had several long in depth discussions re Ageplay with those who believe it encourages those with inapproriate feelings for bio-kids to act out in the real world and have never been able to express my position as clearly as you have here. Thank you, I’m saving a link here so I can refer again when I’m lost for words. Omi Yip – IM me anytime.

  6. […] So far, I have not read any neutral report that can conclude beyond reasonable doubt that sexual age play is hurtful for any real children. I guess, in my heart I still hope some people get the understanding of the difference between ageplay and paedophilia […]

  7. hello, i am a submissive female from germany. i don´t practice ageplay at sl, but am following the discussion about it in the media. especially in germany almost all articles and statements are against ageplay, virtual “child”-pornography even is prohibited by law. nobody makes an allowance for the bdsm-ageplay-aspect and so i welcome your side very much. i think it is very important to tell these so-called “experts” who always accentuate the danger which could encourage pedophiles to live out their urges in rl and never make a difference between pedophile urges and bdsm-fantasies that there exists an important difference. i think it´s very very bad that the prosecution in germany wants to charge age-players for playing porn-situations with children or even with furrys. it´s like judging someone for his fantasies. i agree with you that the whole debate is very controversial and has two sides. because i really think it´s bad if some pedophiles actually GET encouraged by sl-ageplay. but it can´t be right that others who don´t harm and in the future are not going to harm anybody, are accused of their fantasies. so i think you do your bit to elucidate people about the bdsm-aspect. if you like write back

  8. […] ageplay. Of course it hurt me to see people are sill seeing ageplay being equal to pedophilia. But I already wrote about that. It almost felt good to read the anger from the reactions. If lindens were not so serious about […]

  9. you really said it man. i myself am a true pedofile with no problems with restraint besides the temptation of child porn and really like to learn about using SL as a release frankly i have account for a while now if you are interested in discussing with me please email me

  10. wow… what do you mean … a true pedophile? Have you been convicted? I’m going to have to really think about your comment Irish….

  11. I have to wonder if you have ever had any dealings with a child that has been abused

  12. I have listened and spoken to many adult that were sexual abused as children. And all of them know about my ageplay.

    What you don’t realize, apparently , is that i am greatly against any non consensual sexual activity, weather it is with a child, animal or adult. Reay rape is real rape. and it is in my eyes worse then killing people.

    Still that does not mean, for me that i cannot role play. AGEPLAY BETWEEN 2 CONSENTING REAL ADULTS and has nothing to do with the sexification of real children.

  13. I work with abused children. I have known many adults that “get off’ on the thought of having a sexual relationship with a child and how do you know the person you are playing with in SL is an adult? Do you take long to get to know the person before you start your interaction?

  14. I think everyone who knows me, will agree that i go tho great length to know a person first. and a good strong relationship is for me a key factor into well gettign more skin shown. Weather this is in Second life, or Instant messenger, or anything else. And yes, I ask if I am unsure of the age.

    Th women i am doing more with then just chat a the moment, are women I have talked to outside second life, talked about their children, their jobs. I even went to see one of them. And yes, they are adults.

  15. If you do this to work through issues can you explain how someone who has no training can help you and if you claim they are why is it taking so long?

  16. The only one who can really work trough issues, is that person self. No one else can else can, although i see often psychologists, and social service employees think different.

    That does not say that they are worthless, just that even professionals can hit their limits of their ability, ether personal, or given by government, or work floor regulations.

    Healing trust in people cannot be forced. In fact, forcing that will do exactly the opposite.

    I think people who know me and my issues would say I already I come a long way, and that my balance is better now. Some issues, like avoidance personality will probably never be ‘cured’ only be taught to be able to live with. At least that is the the current standing. And i know that i will have to teach my self. No one else can

    But tell me what is the big issue if two consenting adults play with each other this way? Call one mom, suckle her breasts, get a diaper change and in the love and passion for each other have sex too. Tell me, what part of that hurts others?

    Or are you like my one of my relatives, exclaiming this kinds of practices is not natural?(like he also claims for people being gay). the forgetting that if things would be natural, he would have died a long time ago.

  17. For a start psychologists can help a lot given the chance
    A mother and son r/s is not sexual breast feeding is not sexual if you think it is then you need to talk with someone in the above group.
    You seem to need help but I dont think you really want it cause you enjoy this type of play and use things from your past as a way to justify instead of seeking the help you really ned to get on to an adult type r/s. And since you cant see where this is an issue then i will hope someone can intervene at some point and get you the help it seem you are needing

  18. Yes, psychologist *can* give help. Maybe a lot or even complete in certain situations. In other situations they can’t. I found that the ‘other situations part’ is rather large though.

    Hmm. a mother and son breastfeeding is not sexual. The fist simple Google search finds this article. I am not sure, but last time I looked up, and orgasm was sexual, no matter how you look at it. However modern society dictates that breastfeeding ‘should not be erotical’ But that is a fine example of modern society’s hypocrisy. You feel what you feel, and if that is arousal from breastfeeding, that should be quite fine. It is, however, a complete other matter if a woman keeps breastfeeding her child to get orgasm, as that might be against the child wishes or best interest..

    I think you judge quickly, and try to insult me by telling me to see a psychologist. Guess what. I did I have seen 3 actually. . And bummer for you, thought they agreed I should grow in my emotional age, the whole role-play thing was quite all right. Stranger, perhaps, unaccepted by society, for sure, but not wrong, as you seem to be convinced of.

    Then you kind of suggest that I can’t have an adult relationship. My problems lies with fear of rejection. Not with not being able to have a normal relationship. Or even an BDSM relationship besides the age play thing. Again you judge to quickly. Ageplay is a part of it, not the complete package

    When I ask you why you think it is wrong, you can only come up with a non reason: That I need help because I can’t see why it is wrong. Although it is clear that you think it is wrong, you don’t seem to able to give a goods solid reason of why it is wrong. In this way, I feel you sound like one of those religious zealots, that tells you that you should have faith in god, because god says so. I call it black box thinking. When answering gets to difficult, the ‘because I/He/She/It say(s)/is so’ that, I think is hypocrisy, in its most pure form.

  19. Funny i have fed 3 children and not once did i get any sexual pleasure from it ,,, howmany children have you fed? We all know how exact the net is for info and just cause something comes up on top does not mean it is correct. Funny when i google breastfeeding i get this http://www.breastfeeding.com/ at the top.
    I dont know of anyone that does not hate being rejected so how can you use this as an excuse for playing a child ? As for your likening my to a religious zealot is funny since i am an Atheist
    Just how long do you plan on not growing up and accepting that some ppl will not accept you many will reject you in life, they may reject you for a position in the work place, in a social gathering , in a list for a party. Most ppl deal with it move on they dont go off and sulk like some spoilt brat who needs someone to kiss them and say oh its ok you stay here ill make it all better. Maybe you need to face your deamons head on and stop hiding in this sad RP you are not a child so why not grow up scared you cant handle real life and what it will throw at you?
    If you are 20 maybe now you should start looking ahead not looking back.

  20. Well you might not have liked it, and I certainly have not breast fed any children. However, I do talk to people, often on quite serious levels. A few women (those who grew close of course, it is not a ‘ waiting in line at the supermarket’ kind of conversation) did tell me that they did indeed enjoy breastfeeding for the feeling, one even stopped breastfeeding out of guilt feelings. Just because you don’t had that feelings, does not mean other shave not either. Not that the others are wrong or you are right.

    Again you are assuming a lot of things, with out any good back up for it. That gets tiresome, even for me. You did not answer my questions even remotely. All I can see is someone who’s only ground for her reasoning is anger and fear. The only reasoning I heard so far is “it is true because I say/think so” or because “Society says/thinks so” with out facts or sound reasoning behind it.

    Yes, you are right in the fact that no one likes abandoning, and rejection. But now you are pretending that my psychical problem are invalid, just like a little pain you can walk off. Are you doing the same with the abused children you work with?. “Hush, just get over it?” I certainly hope not, and that what you wrote was just a distaste full way of trying to hurt me.

    It might be me, and I like you to proof me wrong, but it seems that trough our conversation, you are the one who stat accusing and judging without backing it up with facts and no solid reasoning, not answering my questions, and trying to get up personal when you can’t seem to convince me a single bit. I don’t know, but I could very well have just described a little child, who is pouting and angry because she does not get her way form mom (or dad, whatever).

    I think we will have to settle on agreeing to disagree. You won’t change how I am thinking. If at all, you made me more and more sure that I am right in my thinking.

  21. No I will not change how you think because you cant see how a child who has had their father coerce them into having sexual relations under the heading of “this is how daddies show how they love their children” How they cry at the pain that it cause them. Then later they learn through school and friends it is not what all daddies do. When the parent that is abusing tells them it is their secret and that if they tell anyone daddy will go to jail and then they will lose the home.
    So If you think playing out this of being a child and having a sexual relation with a mother/father figure will make all your problems go away then I would have to ask how long have you been playing this game.
    The children I work with work through their fears , their pain and learn that the fault is not them. Many of the children I work with are not sexually abused but bashed or verbally abused to the point of being removed from the home. So you talk about fear of rejection these kids have that and a fear no one will want them they they are to blame. So do i feel playing when they are an adult as if they are a child will help no, looking back on their past with guidance will though.
    As for the breastfeeding it is not sexual when feeding it causes contractions in the uterus it helps to get it back into shape. This is what women feel is it sexual no is it pleasant for some but not sexual.

  22. Any form of unconsensual sex is wrong, in my eyes. No matter if you use physical force, or psychological pressure to get it. If the other person does not want to, or feel too pressured to have sex, it is a violation of that person. No matter if that person is a child, teen or adult. I would even go further, an say it applies to animals too. I am very well aware that consensus is not an as easy definition as many people think. This is quite a different discussion

    But if two adults agree upon a play and both want it: It does not hurt another person, and it is even pleasurable for the both, go ahead. Heck, if they like to play out the fantasy of being raped by a Tiger and then eaten, go ahead. Not my kind of play, but that is quite fine. They have a good time, got their need of escapism, and then can go ahead in the real world. There are many people who have rape fantasies, but will never ever want to deal with the real thing, or form the other side, will ever peruse this fantasy. Age play is no difference in the idea that it should never ever be something with a real child. As soon as that happens, it is not called ageplay but paedophilia.
    That is exactly what I want to show, tell an preach with my blog. the big difference between the two.

    You are into the Gor setting, I believe. I had several women come to me crying because of the treatment they got from them en there. Violating their wishes, felt “mentally raped” words one of those woman told me. That for me, is unacceptable. But that does not mean I think Gor should be banned The guy who did this abuse, how ever should have been banned. But got away with a warning. If it works for you to cope with life, by all means go ahead and more power to you.

    Ageplay, sexual or not does not make everything go away (again you make assumptions based on nothing) . But in certain ways it helps very well for me. telling me that is not the case is laughable, as you are in no situation to judge if it works for me or not. At best you can put statistics to is, and tell me it does not work for 90% (chosen as a random high number, I don’t have statistics) of the people. Then I would simply say I am with the other 10%. You can disbelieve that. That is fine. I do believe it, and you can neither proof that is not the case.

    In case of the breastfed women, it was described to me as sexual, not just pleasurable. I also know that they liked to have their breasts licked and sucked during sex. You are now telling me that they are wrong with that? Interesting. Again violating other peoples feelings because it does not compute with how you think the world should be?

  23. For a start since you seem to have read my profile you should note I am no longer Gorean due to me not supporting their ways but again no one in Gor is playing a child.

    And breastfeeding and something done during sex are so different but as you said we agree to disagree
    Age play is not allowed in SL so one would hope you are not going against SLs rules


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